Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:20:16 -0800 From: Norm Matloff To: Norm Matloff Subject: Lou Dobbs forces Sen. Clinton to admit misrepresentation To: H-1B/L-1/offshoring e-newsletter In recent postings, I've shown that Sen. Hillary Clinton's rhetoric against offshoring is all blarney. She talks a good game, but in reality is in cahoots with the offshoring companies, notably the Indian software giant Tata Consultancy Services--one of the leaders in the importation of H-1Bs and offshoring of jobs. See these postings at http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Archive/Hillary3.txt http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Archive/Hillary2.txt http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Archive/Hillary.txt Well, this evening Lou Dobbs did a wonderful job of setting up Clinton, letting her go on and on about how offshoring was so evil--and then confronting her with the Tata evidence! Clinton was then forced to admit that she actually does support offshoring to a significant degree. And in defending her efforts to get Tata entrenched in New York State, Clinton made things even worse: DOBBS: Amongst the number of things, when we said you were going to be our guest here, Senator, a number of people pointed out to us, e- mailing us and calling us, saying, ask the senator about her helping Tata Consulting, a well-known outsourcer, open jobs -- and office in Buffalo, New York. I'm asking you, did you really understand the degree to which they were involved in outsourcing jobs when you were there? CLINTON: Well, of course I know that they outsource jobs, that they've actually brought jobs to Buffalo. They've created 10 jobs in Buffalo and have told me and the Buffalo community that they intend to be a source of new jobs in the area, because, you know, outsourcing does work both ways. You know, we cannot close our borders. We have to be smarter about competing. We have, more enforceable trade agreements. But we also have to attract jobs from around the world. And you know, we are still the biggest market with the greatest potential for growth for businesses from literally every corner of the world. Gee, Tata created 10 whole jobs! This is a company that imports H-1Bs by the thousands, and offshores untold more--but hey, it's OK, because they created 10 whole jobs. And I'll bet those jobs were sales and the like, not technical. She then says: You know, we're not going to stop all outsourcing. I'm not in favor of putting up fences around our country. I think what I want is to address the challenge we face and make sure that we are equipped to provide the incentives both to our workers and to our employers. These are the standard words of the industry lobbyists. The rest of what Clinton says is just like Kerry, just tweaking around the edges, no solutions with any meat to them. The whole issue of removing tax incentives is a red herring. Corporations aren't offshoring because of tax incentives; the amount of money they hope to save from salary differentials dwarfs the tax issues. And the talk about retraining is just as phony today as it was in the H-1B bill of 1998, an easy way to deflect attention from the main issues. Norm http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0403/03/ldt.00.html LOU DOBBS TONIGHT Interview With Senator Hillary Clinton; President Bush Set to Launch Ad Campaign Aired March 3, 2004 - 18:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. ... DOBBS: Lawmakers in Washington are beginning to realize, if they want to save their jobs, they will have to try to save the jobs of hardworking middle-class Americans. The Senate tonight is debating an amendment that would ban the use of federal money to support offshore outsourcing. It's one of several new proposals designed to slow the exporting of American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets throughout the world. Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's the No. 1 topic in Congress, the exporting of jobs. SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: I'm offering an amendment today that says, when it comes to U.S. taxpayer money, you're not going to lay somebody off and hire somebody else 12 time zones away to do the job. SYLVESTER: Under another bill, companies which replace American workers with foreign workers could be cut off from receiving federal grants and loans under the Defending American Jobs Act. The bill targets companies like Motorola, which reportedly laid off 43,000 U.S. workers, invested $3.5 billion in China at the same time it received nearly $190 million from the U.S. Export Import Bank. REP. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: The idea workers who are being laid off and then subsidizing these companies who give their CEOs huge compensation packages, that is a real insult to the American people. And we've got to stop that. SYLVESTER: Another bill backed by Democrats would repeal a set of tax exports deemed illegal by the World Trade Organization and replace it with tax breaks tailored specifically to help American manufacturers. DASCHLE: Shipping jobs overseas has become a practice that we think ought to be stopped, curtailed, discouraged in as many ways as possible. SYLVESTER: The new proposals have worried corporate groups. RICK WHITE, CEO, TECHNET: If you get to the point where somebody else in the world can do something that you are doing, you know, almost as well as you or as well as you or as productively as you, then you are going to have to compete with that person. SYLVESTER: There are other bills that, instead of fighting outsourcing, focus on helping workers adjust. Senator Max Baucus has legislation that would expand job training to laid-off service workers and would plow more money into research and development. SEN. MAX BAUCUS (D), MONTANA: The money we spend will come back to us many times over in the creation of new jobs, new industries and making products yet to be invented. SYLVESTER: Each of the bills have a different solution to the same problem, getting people off of the unemployment lines. (END VIDEOTAPE) SYLVESTER: The majority of the proposed legislation is sponsored by Democrats. And so far, the White House and the Republican leadership on Capitol Hill have not been willing to stand in the way of outsourcing -- Lou. DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much. ... (COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: The shipment of American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets and its impact on American life, its quality of life, is, of course, a key focus of this broadcast. My next guest, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, today announced a number of proposals to prevent what we call here the exporting of America. Senator Clinton wants tax credits for corporations, for businesses that create and keep jobs in this country. The senator also wants to create a manufacturing research agency to advance factory innovation. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: We have the tools that we need. All we lack is the will. And, once again, we can not only make the American dream strong, but restore the strength to the words "made in America," put the American team back on the field, demonstrate that we can outcompete anybody and that we are open for business for the 21st century. (END VIDEO CLIP) DOBBS: Senator Clinton joins us now from our studios in Washington, D.C. Senator, good to have you with us. CLINTON: It's great to be with you, Lou. DOBBS: Senator, on this proposal of yours to provide tax incentives to corporations, the cost would likely be sizable. How are we going to pay for it will be the first question critics would put before you. So let me lead with that. CLINTON: Well, Lou, I think we have to play both offense and defense. We do have to provide some carrots, some incentives in order to persuade some of our corporate leadership to think twice about exporting jobs. But we also know that we have a lot of loopholes that should have been closed years ago that truly do provide the kind of incentive to go offshore, to set up some charade on some island somewhere to pretend that it's a headquarters or -- when it's really just a mail drop. We need to look at our tax code and be honest about what it does produce, the consequences of the actions that we're taking. The debate we're having now in the Senate that was brought about because of the European Union threatening tariffs against us if we didn't end an effort to provide subsidies to manufacturers here at home gives us an opportunity to begin to create a bipartisan consensus along a range of possibilities that will help us keep jobs and prevent the exporting of America. DOBBS: You also recommend a manufacturing research agency modeled on DARPA, the old program that actually led to a couple of interesting things, like the Internet, amongst others. The idea of government stepping into this is one of those issues that is sure to be a lightning rod for criticism. What do you envision that agency really doing? CLINTON: Well, Lou, I think, in so many ways in our past, we have had government investments that made us richer in the future, whether we talk about the Internet, a recent Defense Department, government-funded, originally scientific communication system that we obviously know what has resulted from, but, also, the interstate highway system, our airline system, our space program, other investments that we make. And I think, if we look at what is on the horizon -- you know, we could produce a lot of jobs in our country through clean, smart alternative energy. We could be more competitive in both conservation and in, you know, new means of producing energy for everything from the automobile and other forms of transportation to power plants. We are ceding that field. The European Union and Japan have rather significant government programs under way to take the risks that are often difficult for the private sector to take in the beginning. And then, once you get over those obstacles, where something is doable and has commercial implications, you put it out in the private sector. And we then can outcompete anybody anywhere. DOBBS: It's nice to hear you say that. It's nice to hear any elected official say that, because, too often, we are hearing some -- some rationalization, it seems to me, on the part of a few, saying that, not only is labor cheaper, but, in some cases, the suggestion that it's better somewhere, the competitive side of it really masking just simply cheap overseas labor. I'd like to read, if I may, Senator, a reaction to -- from the manufacturing side to your proposals today. I'm quoting Randall Wolken, the president of the Manufacturers Association of Central New York, who said "it is more important to get the government to aggressively retain and attract jobs than to create a new agency." How would you react to that? And he was generally supportive of your proposals, I must add that. CLINTON: Well, I think that he's right, that what I'm advocating is a whole range of approaches and policies. The Manufacturing Research Agency is only a part of that. I would certainly start with the more immediate needs because anything that took some time for research and development is some years off. But I wouldn't forget that, because I think planning for the future is something that we can reap benefits from. But I think we need to focus on, number one, getting our tax system right, quit giving incentives to people for moving jobs offshore. Getting our trade system right, you know, I was very disappointed when the current administration moved away from the Jordan free trade agreement, which began to try to put into place higher labor and environmental standards so it wasn't a race to the bottom. We also need to be looking at the fair treatment of our workers, and that's a big problem for us in Upstate New York, because we've lot lost so many manufacturing jobs and now we're losing service jobs. And we're not giving people the support they need to find their way back into the job market. But at the same time, we've got to have the jobs for them to be able to take. DOBBS: In your suggestion for honesty, Senator, I have to say that we all bear some responsibility here, it seems to me, Democrats, Republicans, media, corporate America, because there was an acceptance of the initial idea that manufacturing jobs, the loss of them, the millions of them that we've lost over the past, really, almost two decades in this country, somehow would be offset by high-value jobs. Now that those are being exported, I think there's a little more keenness to be just absolutely honest about it on all our parts. You talked about a bipartisan approach. How reasonable is it to expect a new consensus here? Because we're looking, frankly, at a free trade environment that has led to a half trillion dollar, better than half trillion dollar current account deficit for last year. We're on our way to exceeding that now, as you know. How are we going to do this? CLINTON: Well, Lou, I think your cautionary note is exactly right. We need a little more humility too. We don't have all the answers, but one thing we can be sure of, if we do nothing, we're going to continue to export American jobs. And that's not only bad for America, that's bad for the entire global economy. You know, I think of the global economy as an inverted triangle, resting on the shoulders of the American consumer. And if the American consumer cannot have enough disposable income in order to maintain a standard of living that creates more opportunities generation after generation, that's bad for everybody. So it is in our interest to create this bipartisan consensus. Unfortunately, I think the administration has really bought into the fact that all we need to do is cut taxes on the wealthy, and we have to have a laissez faire attitude toward trade and toward retraining workers, the tax system and everything else, and somehow it's all going to come out in the end. That has never been the American way. You know, what I sense is a sense of fatalism and defeatism that I just reject. DOBBS: I think we're all with you on that part. I would just like to point out, however, that free trade didn't begin with this administration. Your husband's administration was a leading proponent and a rather effective advocate of that, including the onset of NAFTA, of course. Amongst the number of things, when we said you were going to be our guest here, Senator, a number of people pointed out to us, e- mailing us and calling us, saying, ask the senator about her helping Tata Consulting, a well-known outsourcer, open jobs -- and office in Buffalo, New York. I'm asking you, did you really understand the degree to which they were involved in outsourcing jobs when you were there? CLINTON: Well, of course I know that they outsource jobs, that they've actually brought jobs to Buffalo. They've created 10 jobs in Buffalo and have told me and the Buffalo community that they intend to be a source of new jobs in the area, because, you know, outsourcing does work both ways. You know, we cannot close our borders. We have to be smarter about competing. We have, more enforceable trade agreements. But we also have to attract jobs from around the world. And you know, we are still the biggest market with the greatest potential for growth for businesses from literally every corner of the world. So what I've tried to do is not only figure out tax and trade and retraining and other policies that will enable us to attract and keep jobs, but to be attractive, especially in Upstate new York, which has lost so many jobs that we can get people to come and bring their jobs to our states. So we're making real progress on that. But, you know, it is something that I'm well aware of, and conscious of the implications. But I think that we've got to percent have trade going both ways. And again, if we're given a chance to compete, we can compete with anybody anywhere. DOBBS: Senator, the -- John Kerry obviously is now going to be the nominee of your party. Do you think that what you've heard from him at this point is a strong enough statement on reaching a redress in trade imbalances and eliminating deficits and stopping outsourcing? CLINTON: I think that John Kerry really understands the challenge in front of us and has made some very good proposals about addressing them. I look forward to supporting him in any way that he requests, because I think that we are going to provide an alternative, just as we are today on the Senate floor providing an alternative to the lack of economic policies by this administration and really the celebration of outsourcing. You know, we're not going to stop all outsourcing. I'm not in favor of putting up fences around our country. I think what I want is to address the challenge we face and make sure that we are equipped to provide the incentives both to our workers and to our employers. And Lou, let me say one other thing, because this is not just an issue for the public sector. I think that private sector leadership needs to take a good look in the mirror. They take every advantage of the American economy, the American contractual system, the rule of law that we support, everything that is great about living in America. And I think, frankly, that they need to be more responsible in how they view their obligations to this country. Again, I'm not asking that, you know, they never do business anywhere else. But we've seen too many decisions made. Just in Syracuse, New York, this past year, we saw Carrier shut down a plant that was still operating profitably. And, you know, from my perspective, there needs to be a little more awareness of the implications of this kind of leadership on the part of the private sector. So it becomes a public/private partnership to do what is necessary to make sure that America continues to be as strong in the future as it has been for those of us who grew up enjoying the benefits of a strong economy here. ...