Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 00:17:22 -0700 From: Norm Matloff To: Norm Matloff Subject: odd experience To: age discrimination/H-1B mailing list (The following item will not be as "newsy" as what I send out usually, but I think some of you will find it of interest, especially those of you who are very critical of HR departments.) This week I attended a computer research conference in Las Vegas. I flew home to the Bay Area this evening. This morning, at the conference, I was talking to a man from a university in England about the way the industry hires (or doesn't hire) programmers. Not surprisingly, things are just as bad in the UK as here. But what was very interesting is that he had developed the same views I had, and he was especially critical of HR departments and their highly restrictive skills lists they put in job ads. I told the man a bit about my activities concerning this subject. Then I said that what fascinated me was the amazing uniformity among HR departments for firms across the country, e.g. the facts that they all want 3-7 years of experience (no more, no less), etc. This of course is how they screen out the older workers, over age 40 or even 35. I said, "The HR people must have professional conferences like we do, where they trade information; that must be how it turns out to be so uniform from company to company." OK, now hold that information for a moment, and read on. On the plane ride back home, I happened to be sitting next to a woman and her two small kids (her son, a toddler, was sitting on her lap, no individual ticket). She spoke to her kids in Spanish, though she speaks unaccented English, so I asked if she was trying to bring up her kids to be bilingual. She said yes, and started giving me some of the details. So, I responded with my own experience in which my wife and I have been bringing up our daughter to be bilingual in English and Chinese. It also turns out that we live in adjoining suburbs in the East Bay. She and her husband have long commutes, just as my wife and I do, etc. My point is that we had a very pleasant chat. She even asked me to hold her son on my lap while she fussed with her daughter. We were enjoying the conversation---until she happened to mention that she too was returning home from a conference in Las Vegas. I asked what kind of conference it was, and lo and behold, it turned out to be a conference for HR people! This was not only an interesting coincidence, since I had just postulated the existence of such conferences this very morning, but I thought it was a good opportunity to try to find out what really goes on. I've interviewed many HR people for my research before, but here was a chance to speak on a friendly level, off the record, and try to explain why employers are hurting themselves with such restrictive policies. I asked if the woman worked for a high-tech firm, and she said she did. (I won't mention the name here, but it is a medium-size firm with definite name recognition in Silicon Valley.) I noted that my wife had once interviewed at that firm a few years ago, and the woman replied that my wife should apply again, because the firm is desperate to hire. I then said that my wife is not in the market for a job, but even if she were, this firm would not be interested, since they would only want people with very highly specialized software skills. I then said that I feel that the employers should not screen on the basis of specific skills. Sadly, that comment stopped the conversation dead in its tracks; the woman said "No, we need to do it that way," and then immediately clammed up, not saying a word on this or anything else afterwards for the rest of the trip. All of her friendliness vanished in a flash. I got the definite impression that she had been told by her employer not to discuss these matters. I had not informed her of my work on H-1B etc. [Note added later: Some months after that incident, I discovered that this person was a member of a group called Wings, consisting of about a dozen HR people in Silicon Valley. One of the other members was later called to testify in a legal proceedings involving H-1B.] Norm