To: H-1B/L-1/offshoring e-newsletter Sat Mar 15 13:06:06 PDT 2014 A number of people have conducted "welfare checks" with me recently, concerned after my having not posted anything to this e-newsletter for quite a while. Thanks, I'm absolutely fine, just devoid of having much to post. But yesterday I was a participant in a remarkable panel discussion that is well worth reporting here. The discussion took place as part of a large conference on global political and economic issues, with big-name featured speakers from the worlds of government, journalism and academia. The discussion itself was private, by invitation only, 18 people including me, no audience present. The organizer described it to me as a "breakout session" in the conference. The format consisted of our sitting around a conference table and exchanging views. Except for me, all the participants were people with strong vested interests in expanding the H-1B program. These were all people with considerable power and influence--tech industry executives, venture capitalists, heads of business groups and so on. I joked that I had entered the "lion's den," which provoked laughter. We first went around the table with introductions. A number of those present made a big point of saying that they can't find the workers they need, they need to hire H-1Bs, etc. Aditya Agarwal, VP of Engineering of Dropbox, was the featured speaker, and gave a short introductory speech. He repeatedly emphasized that Dropbox is desperate to hire, etc., and of course gave his own "poster boy" history--foreign student in one of the top U.S. university CS programs, then an early employee in Facebook, then founder of his own firm, later acquired by Dropbox. Agarwal said that most of his time at Dropbox is spent on recruiting workers, and again repeated how difficult it is to get the people he needs. I thought at first, well, 17 of them vs. 1 of me, this will be fun, and that's how it turned out. Some people were politely hostile. "What you are saying is totally different from my experience and that of everyone I know in the industry," "You have no data," "Your data is misleading," "Yes, the foreign workers are trapped, but they are making $1 million per year, nice way to be trapped," etc. However, the moderator ("Moderator Z"), a VC who is also board member of the organization holding the conference, actually was sympathetic to me, saying to the group, "I personally know a lot of older engineers who have trouble finding work." He added that just by the laws of supply and demand alone, the presence of H-1Bs lowers wages. Apparently he's the one who chose to invite me to the "lion's den." His statement about older engineers came after I mentioned a friend who had applied to Dropbox just last week and had been rejected just one day later without even a phone interview. I didn't say the person's name, of course, but did cite the person's stellar background. The guy lives in the Bay Area, so there would be no relocation issue etc. I said to the group, "You say you can't find qualified American workers, but frankly what I say is that you aren't trying very hard." I also pointed out that if one clicks on "Our Team" on Dropbox's Web page, one sees they are almost all in their 20s or early 30s. That kind of took the wind out of the group's sails for a while, especially since Agarwal did say that this person seemed to be of the type Dropbox is seeking. In spite of the polite hostility, they made some surprising admissions: 1. Agarwal admitted that: a. Yes, the green card process makes the foreign workers immobile, and yes, that reduces salary. b. Dropbox has mountains of applicants, and Agarwal just doesn't have time to look at many. So much for being desperate to hire! Instead of a shortage, he has an embarrassment of riches. Clearly, Agarwal finds it convenient to recruit (young) foreign students at U.S. universities, and so forget the mountains of applicants. That's really the bottom line, convenience. I've mentioned this occasionally in my e-newsletter. 2. A VP of HR ("VP W") for a tech firm that was recently acquired by a long-established company, admitted that: a. Yes, employers like the fact that the H-1Bs being sponsored for green cards are trapped, immobile. She hastened to add that she likes the term "retain" instead of "trap." It was said in a joking way but she was serious. b. She said that the market value of the workers she hires is far above the "prevailing wage," the legal term for the wage floor that H-1B employers must meet. So I said, "Right, the prevailing wage is a joke," to which she nodded in agreement, and I followed up by saying, "The government data show that the vast majority of foreign tech workers are only paid the prevailing wage or slightly above it, so you can see they're underpaid. And even companies like Intel have substantial numbers of H-1Bs at just the prevailing wage level." What was especially interesting is what the group did NOT say: i. Moderator Z asked VP W, "What would happen if all your foreign workers were to disappear tomorrow? Just from the laws of supply and demand, you'd have to start offering a lot more money in recruiting workers, right?" W answered yes, she would. But what she did NOT say was, "We would have to scale back our operations, because there aren't Americans with the skills we need"--the industry party line, one that she herself had stated earlier in the meeting. So, apparently Americans with the skills she wants are available after all. ii. No one spoke the other standard industry party line, "We need to work at the K-12 level to get more kids interested in STEM, so we don't have to rely on H-1Bs in the future." It's phony, of course, as W and Agarwal implicitly conceded, but they didn't even bother with it. It was just, "Gimme the H-1Bs." I emphasized many times that I strongly support bringing in the best and the brightest from around the world, but that the vast majority of H-1Bs are not in that category. At one point, Agarwal brought up the "older engineers don't have the latest skills" canard. Pointing to his cell phone, he said that even he, not that long out of school (he is right around 30), doesn't know how to write cell phone apps, and it would take him six months to learn. I challenged him on that, and he seemed to back down. Earlier I had mentioned that my friend whom Dropbox had rejected had written an iPhone app. The meeting later got surreal. Someone said, "Aren't we going to talk about our strategy?" The whole meeting had been planned as a strategy meeting for FWD.us, Mark Zuckerberg's immigration "reform" organization! One of those present is a major player in FWD.us. They then proceeded to talk as if I weren't there, strategizing on what kinds of TV commercials to run, which Republicans to put pressure on, etc. Agarwal is a key player in FWD.us. Odd meeting for me, to say the least. (Later note: Originally I did not list names in this post. I later disclosed Agarwal's name and firm. I don't remember the others, thus have left them anonymous. Norm Archived at http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Archive/CandidTalkWithCEOsEtc.txt